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lion
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 6/7/2008 2:49:31 PM
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Then why is it the digital camp spends soooo much time trying to make papers and ink jet products that look like traditional processes?!?
An internet acquantaince sent me the post made at the other site where the owner urges people to "get along" and mistakes the keeping of tradition with the worshiping of ashes instead of caring for the flame. In this post he ask why should he cares if people want to use the new paper? Well, I will tell him why he should care.
It is not a question of getting along with those using digital, people should use whatever expresses their talent the best. It is a question of honesty, of respecting a process that already exists and gives superb results in the hands of talented people. They tried this with "digital platinum prints" and nobody bought it, now we have "digital silver prints". Of course those who have run and bought the new paper tell us it is so great, much better than real silver prints. I doubt this very much! What it is, is simpler!
SO why should we care? We should care because this once more is another blow for those who love darkroom work. Why should a paper manufacturer continue to spend money and time making a paper that requires environmental compliance, difficult work conditions, and mantain a consistent product line when all they need to do is turn on the lights, use the same coating machines to coat paper without silver at a much lower price and then pass it as "digital silver prints"...the answer is they should not, unless those who use silver papers speak up!
There are times when we should stand our ground and say enough is enough. If digital is so great, then it should be something more than traditional photography, not a half assed simulation of it! This is why we should care, because it is not a silver print, it is an ink jet print on a paper that looks like silver prints and this, bottom line, is a dishonest....
Funny that the owner of the one site which prides itself on promoting traditional photography is now telling us this is not important.....I suppose if he made his living making beautiful silver prints instead of selling ads and memberships on a web site he would feel differently.
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pachyderm
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 10:39:54 PM
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| I understand your frustration, and share it. I don't hate digital, but I also don't want to be forced to use it unless I want to. Unfortunately, it seems that more and more, we are left with fewer and fewer choices. I guess the other thing that bothers me is the attitude that if you shoot film, you are somehow living in the dark ages. Not that every digital photographer believes that, but enough do, that I feel they are being condescending towards me. I work with one who has no problem with me shooting film; in fact, we went out together after work on day, him and his 5D, and me with my F6. I was there to give him a few pointers - like, quit chimping the LCD and look for your next image, not spent your time being concerned about the last one. No, I see nothing wrong with caring about what you do.
Robert M. Teague---------------------------------------------
Website: www.visionlandscapes.com
Blog: visionlandscapes.spaces.live.com
"Fujifilm remains true to its heritage and to the acknowledged superior image quality delivered by professional photographic film products." -- Fuji Press Release
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leopard
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 7/30/2008 1:56:13 AM
Posts: 30,
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Then why is it the digital camp spends soooo much time trying to make papers and ink jet products that look like traditional processes?!?
An internet acquaintance sent me the post made at the other site where the owner urges people to "get along" and mistakes the keeping of tradition with the worshiping of ashes instead of caring for the flame. In this post he ask why should he cares if people want to use the new paper? Well, I will tell him why he should care.
It is not a question of getting along with those using digital, people should use whatever expresses their talent the best. It is a question of honesty, of respecting a process that already exists and gives superb results in the hands of talented people. They tried this with "digital platinum prints" and nobody bought it, now we have "digital silver prints". Of course those who have run and bought the new paper tell us it is so great, much better than real silver prints. I doubt this very much! What it is, is simpler!
SO why should we care?
Because it is destroying what we have tried to make an art form. I have spent years in the darkroom learning to master and perfect a craft and now anyone and I mean anyone with photoshop, computer and inkjet printer, digital silver, whatever, can produce similar results with a click of the mouse and a push of the button on the keyboard with little or no talent at all. They are not mastering anything but rather becoming proficient at a software program. These people are not artist but rather graphic designers at best. The reason why they love the new technology and embrace it is because they could not print well in the first place and are lazy. It is really that simple. PS I am speaking of BW users not color as that is an entire different ball game because in this day and age you cant really have Cibachrome made anymore and are forced to use digital for color processes, but unfortunately I see this happening to the BW shooter as well, the fact of being forced to use something that is inferior to a traditional photograph.
unless those who use silver papers speak up!
The problem is that those of us that use the traditional are becoming less and less because most of the consumer base is American and most Americans are just lazy and want instant gratification rather than taking the time to learn and explore and master something. It is much easier to create a digital negative with a push of button that will print perfectly than to test your materials and wait out the condition in the field to get the perfect exposure.
There are times when we should stand our ground and say enough is enough.
Every time we stand our ground we re put down and insulted and told how irresponsible we are for not hording with the masses. It is kind of like the days is Vinyl, if you did not goto CD you were a misfit, but when it all boils down it has been proven that a vinyl played on a HIGH end system will out perform a CD because with a digital CD the highs and lows are compressed where as the vinyl keeps the dynamic range. Don’t believe me search the web it is all their. Also look up in different audio magazines you will find articles written on this topic as well.
This is why we should care, because it is not a silver print, it is an ink jet print on a paper that looks like silver prints and this, bottom line, is a dishonest....
In the day and age we live in, it seems that lying to the consumer that buys prints is the normal and this hurts us who actually use traditional material. It is just like a story I saw the other day on TV where theses bands would go on tour under the name of the original group. None of the original singers were in these groups but yet theses idiots made money off the original artist back. The public did not know they were not the original singers. It was on channel 13 news. Anyway this is just like the digital print, the consumer has been lied to so much that they don’t know the difference and many times they are under the impression they are buying a silver print when in fat they are only buying a inkjet. It think it is pathetic for the artist to be such a fraudulent liar but I see it all the time, even in galleries.
Funny that the owner of the one site which prides itself on promoting traditional photography is now telling us this is not important.....I suppose if he made his living making beautiful silver prints instead of selling ads and memberships on a web site he would feel differently.
You got that right. Like the saying goes no one cares unless it affects them personally. Since most of the people on the others sites, owners included, do not make living selling prints they could care less how their views affect anyone else.
Kevin Saitta
My Blog
ArtSoft the artist solution...
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pachyderm
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 10:39:54 PM
Posts: 556,
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An internet acquaintance sent me the post made at the other site where the owner urges people to "get along" and mistakes the keeping of tradition with the worshiping of ashes instead of caring for the flame. In this post he ask why should he cares if people want to use the new paper? I was quite blown away when I read the first post in the thread, and very disappointed. After the first couple of pages, I decided that I had enough of that thread.
Robert M. Teague---------------------------------------------
Website: www.visionlandscapes.com
Blog: visionlandscapes.spaces.live.com
"Fujifilm remains true to its heritage and to the acknowledged superior image quality delivered by professional photographic film products." -- Fuji Press Release
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lion
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/8/2008 10:23:05 PM
Posts: 136,
Visits: 211
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| What I think that it should really come down to for us as individuals and photographers is to be true to | | | |